In Part 1, Ty Gates showed us how advertising can fight back…

Now, for Part 2, we bring in the heavy artillery: Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, author, and behavioural science star.

Does Rory think we’ve entered a post-brand era? Absolutely not. In fact, he argues brands are the essential “Darwinian feedback mechanism” of capitalism - and even Galloway himself can’t escape buying brands when he thinks he’s just buying utility.

In this episode, Rory takes direct aim at the current corporate obsession with using AI and tech simply to slash budgets. As he bluntly puts it: “It’s not cost saving if you’re making your customer pay the price.”

Along with dismantling the cost-cutting panacea, we go down a few other great rabbit holes:

☝ AI’s True Potential: Why using AI just to replace jobs on a 1-to-1 basis is the most boring, stupid use case - and why founders are more likely to use it to create entirely new forms of value exchange.

✌ The “Tight Fitness Function”: How narrow financial metrics and the need for constant quarterly reporting are destroying business biodiversity and making companies less innovative.

🤟 The Star Bar Effect: Rory’s favourite chocolate bar and what we can learn from it…

(Bonus: If you want even more of Rory’s genius after this episode, check out his classic TED Talk, “Perspective is Everything” 🧠)

That was Scott Galloway’s recent provocation. While he praised Anthropic’s brilliant Super Bowl ad as a potential “1984 Apple ad moment” for the AI revolution, he ultimately dismissed it as a temporary “blip” for the ad industry, arguing that tech, utility, and algorithms have permanently defeated brand and creativity.

But have we really entered a post-brand era?

To answer that, we’re dedicating a special two-part series of The Rabbit Hole Experience to tackling Scott’s challenge! 🕳️🐇

To kick off Part 1, I went straight to the source. I sat down with Ty Gates, Communications Director at Mother - the very agency behind that Anthropic ad (and recently named Ad Age’s Indie Global Ad Network of the Year! 🏆).

We used the massive cultural footprint of Mother’s work for Anthropic to explore how the ad world can fight back - not by fighting tech, but by learning from it. As Ty points out in the clip below, advertising has a speed problem. We need to stop taking 9 months to launch campaigns while tech companies ship new code every day.

Along with the need for speed, we went down a few other great rabbit holes:

☝ Business Value over Cannes Lions: Why agencies lost their seat in the boardroom, and how they can win it back by speaking the language of conversions instead of just vanity metrics.

🤘 The “Anthropic Effect”: Why the tech VC narrative of “AI replacing humans” is wrong, and how creatives are using it to execute at the speed of culture.

🤟 The Death of the “Push” Ad: Why traditional deception-based advertising is dead, and how modern brands are winning through authentic branded entertainment.

We kick off the conversation discussing her concept of “One Stunt Shops” and how the industry’s obsession with tactical plays has evolved in the age of AI. We debate why the real value of these tools isn’t just about accelerating the same old playbooks, but imagining entirely new possibilities.

Here are some of the areas we explored:

☝ The 5x vs. 50x Mindset: Why we need to move beyond using AI merely for efficiency (the 5x) and start using it to unlock expansive imagination (the 50x).

🤘 Femininimity & The Fear of Laziness: We dive into Miriam’s honest talk on women in the workplace and discuss the skepticism strategists feel toward AI-specifically the fear that outsourcing thinking to a “black box” will make us intellectually lazy.

🤟 Lifelong Kindergarten: Drawing inspiration from the Nordic education system, we discuss why the future of strategy requires a “childlike” willingness to experiment, fail without consequence, and get comfortable with the uncomfortable.

🖖 The Death of the “Big Reveal”: How the agency-client relationship is shifting from “work-present-iterate” to a constant state of co-exploration from day one.

🖐 The Trap of the “Easy Average”: Why “good enough” is losing value. If everyone has the same tools to reach the average, the only value left is in the edge cases.

🤝 Strategy x Creative Convergence: Why the old model of the “smart” strategist handing off to the “wacky” creative is dead - today, strategy must be creative, and creative must be strategic.

👊 Discipline: Miriam argues that for the next generation of talent, the most critical new skill isn’t prompt engineering, but the discipline to stay focused amidst endless possibilities.

We are three episodes in, and there are some clear, consistent threads appearing. Last week, Jude Pullen spoke about “Incurable Curiosity,” and Scott Wilkinson touched on how we need to explore in a way that unlocks our more human side.

Miriam builds on this perfectly here. She discusses moving past the comfort of frameworks and “data truths” to embrace the uncomfortable. It’s about not stopping when you think you have the answer, but using AI as both a divergent and convergent partner to push your learning mindset further.

Check out Miriam’s talk that we referred to in the chat below - "Fear of Femininity. The Hidden Reasons Behind the Gender gap":

Also so I wasn’t throwing out random made up thoughts, some of the data points around women and men when it comes to AI usage:

• Deloitte – “Women and generative AI: The adoption gap” (TMT Predictions)

• Berkeley Haas – “AI’s Gender Gap”

• Deloitte / AIPRM generative AI statistics overview (includes gender split figures)

• Statistics Sweden – “One in four uses generative AI-tools”

• CNBC – “Gen AI is at risk of creating a new gender gap in job market”

We kick off the conversation discussing LEGO and Mitch Resnick, setting the table for a deep dive into three main areas:

☝ The Computer in a Brick: We unpack the tension between digital play and physical play. How do we balance the “computer in a brick” with the simplicity of playing with sticks, and how can opposing views on technology both be right at the same time?

🤘 Incurable Curiosity: Jude explains why the key differentiator for the future isn’t just creativity, but being “incurably curious.” We discuss the power of adaptability and the willingness to sit in the uncomfortable space of uncertainty to solve complex problems.

🤟 The Clay and The Code: We bridge the gap between two worlds. From high-performance computing to hand-dug ceramics, we explore why we don’t have to choose between high-tech and high-touch - and why true innovation needs both.

🕳️

Want to follow Jude deeper into his Rabbit Hole? - he has shared some links below 😊🐇🦨:

• https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/the-fight-to-repair-prologue

• https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/user/Hey%20Jude

• https://www.instructables.com/member/Hey%20Jude/instructables/

• https://www.judepullen.com/

It has been exactly one year since we last spoke, and the tone of the conversation has shifted dramatically. We are no longer debating whether AI can prove value. Instead, we are showing the multiple ways it already has, while exploring the nuance of how it scales. Crucially, we discuss why a “copy and paste” approach to implementation is doomed to fail - it requires a distinct cultural shift, not just a software update.

In this episode, we revisit themes from last year and explore the reality of the landscape in January 2026:

☝ The “Dishwasher Analogy”: Inspired by Rory Sutherland’s theory that the only way to find out what is dishwasher proof is to put everything in and see what survives. We discuss applying this “stress test” to AI in business - throwing it into workflows to see what dies and what comes out gold-plated.

🤘 Escaping Pilot Purgatory: How to move from endless testing to creating a flywheel of practical application.

🤟 Sentience & Culture: Why technology is no longer the blocker - human self-awareness and organisational culture are.

Check out the Bionic Awards trailer below:

In the conversation, we go deeper into:

• The “Doom vs. Boom” Continuum: How to move from anxiety to action and stay employable.

• Why AI Has No Taste: The “genius toddler” analogy and why human curation is more valuable than ever.

• Silicon Valley vs. The Artist: The tension between rapid iteration and the need for “slow,” reflective creativity.

• The Global Community: How creators from Bogota to London are using these tools to build new careers.

Main link is www.bionicawards.com

Follow on Insta at #thebionicawards

This conversation sat in my edit folder for way longer than I wanted. The sound didn’t come out the way I’d hoped (I will be levelling up my podcast hardware very soon :), and I was genuinely disappointed at the time. But after revisiting it, cleaning it up as much as I could, and listening again the insights were simply too good not to share.

Jennifer’s POVs aged very well :)

In the conversation, we cover:

The Future CMO

• The role now spans brand, performance, tech, and infrastructure

AI as an Accelerant

• Nobody fully knows the end state - experimentation is the job

Human Value in an AI-First World

• AI raises the bar for humans, it doesn’t replace them

Efficiency vs. Differentiation

• AI will win at optimisation and efficiency. Differentiation and originality become more valuable, not less

What Breaks, What Survives

• Breakthrough creativity is what CMOs will still pay for

It’s a calm, honest, and quietly radical take on where real value now sits:
sharp thinking, intellectual courage, and human judgement - amplified by AI.

You can keep following Jennifer via her Substack below:

probably something.

Probably Something - explores how frontier technology shapes marketing, consumer-focused business strategy, and the opportunities ahead. We used to joke about how something was "probably nothing" until we realised it was something.

By Jennifer Roebuck

In the conversation we cover:

• George’s shift from corporate strategy to “robot midwifery”

• Letting go of control in creative work with AI

• The theory-action gap in LLMs and what it means for alignment

• Building agents that reflect human values

• Citizen science returning through better AI tools

• Consciousness, conflicting goals, and multi-agent systems

• The real OS-level battle beneath today’s AGI hype

Some awesome areas of exploration from George can be found below, things mentioned in the conversation as well as additional goodness:

• Newell, Shaw, Simon - The Process of Creative Thinking (1958)
  https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/papers/2008/P1320.pdf

• J.C.R. Licklider - Man–Computer Symbiosis (1960)
  http://groups.csail.mit.edu/medg/people/psz/Licklider.html

• Douglas Engelbart - Augmenting Human Intellect (1962)
  http://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/papers/scanned/Doug_Engelbart-AugmentingHumanIntellect.pdf

• Herbert Simon & Allen Newell - Human Problem Solving: State of the Theory (1970)
  https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/18ce/82b07ac84aaf30b502c93076cec2accbfcaa.pdf

• Marvin Minsky - Why People Think Computers Can’t (1982)
  https://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/ComputersCantThink.txt

• Mark Pesce - Final Amputation: Pathogenic Ontology in Cyberspace (1993)
  http://hyperreal.org/~mpesce/fa.html

• Bret Victor - Stop Drawing Dead Fish (2013)

• Kevin Slavin - Design as Participation (2016)
  https://jods.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/design-as-participation

• Joichi Ito - Extended Intelligence (2016)
  http://v2.pubpub.org/pub/extended-intelligence

• Joichi Ito - Resisting Reduction: A Manifesto (2017)
  https://pubpub.ito.com/pub/resisting-reduction

• Brian Eno & Peter Schmidt - Oblique Strategies (1975)
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_Strategies

• Norbert Wiener - Cybernetics (1948)

• Norbert Wiener - Human Use of Human Beings (1950)

• W. Ross Ashby - Introduction to Cybernetics (1956)

• Herbert Simon & Allen Newell - Elements of a Theory of Human Problem Solving (1958)

• Marshall McLuhan - Understanding Media (1964)

• Herbert Simon - Sciences of the Artificial (1969)

• Seymour Papert - Mindstorms (1980)

• Robert Axelrod - The Evolution of Cooperation (1984)

• Valentino Braitenberg - Vehicles: Experiments in Synthetic Psychology (1984)

• Frederick Brooks - The Design of Design (2010)

• Mitch Resnick - All I Really Need to Know About Creative Thinking I Learned in Kindergarten (2007)

• Ted Chiang - The Lifecycle of Software Objects

• Kurt Vonnegut - Player Piano

• Yuri Lotman - Inside Thinking Worlds

• Mark Solms - The Hidden Spring

• Marvin Minsky - Society of Mind

• Lev Vygotsky - Works on play, socio-cultural development, ZPD

• Blaise Agüera y Arcas - What Is Intelligence?

Want to make your first steps into quantum? - Andreas has provided some links below :)

“Pretty pedagogical, and more focused on hands on programming than describing the hydrogen atom. Enjoy!”

Learn quantum programming — PennyLane

Learn Quantum Computing Online | Free Tutorials & Interactive Exercises | IQM Academy - Learn Quantum Computing

Great chat with Stef Hamerlinck covering brand as an operating system and the role of AI in brand building, using his mascot Marcel as an example. He differentiates between “AI slop” and thoughtful AI use, acknowledging ethical concerns while emphasizing AI’s potential for creativity and community. His advice to brands is to prioritise distinctiveness and explore AI tools internally for prototyping ideas.

Check out Stef’s Substack and AI bubble short film below 🫧🐶:

Let's talk branding

The AI Bubble Is Real (and That’s a Good Thing)

Read more

5 months ago · 4 likes · Stef Hamerlinck

This recording is something accessible for clients after the WPP Media Denmark AI Strategy Session, a hands on pragmatic and practical 2hr workshop that pieces together all the market leading WPP ingredients from WPP Open, Open Pro, Open Intelligence, Satalia acquisition, Google partnership, Stability AI investment etc etc… applies it to specific clients and leaves them with a roadmap to follow and user cases to explore immediately.

Dr Laura Weis discusses her journey from academia to her current role in driving human AI strategy at WPP. She emphasises the importance of integrating talent and technology strategies to create value, highlighting that value creation lies at the intersection of these areas. Laura also addresses the narrative surrounding AI, noting that while AI can enhance productivity, it is crucial to focus on the conditions and context in which AI is used to ensure positive outcomes.

Don’t blame the spoon 🥄

Also check out Laura’s M-shaped opinion piece over on WARC’s Future of strategy 2025

This recording is something accessible for clients after the WPP Media Denmark AI Strategy Session, a hands on pragmatic and practical 2hr workshop that pieces together all the market leading WPP ingredients from WPP Open, Open Pro, Open Intelligence, Satalia acquisition, Google partnership, Stability AI investment etc etc… applies it to specific clients and leaves them with a roadmap to follow and user cases to explore immediately.

Alison Ebers dives into some of the topics the workshop covers exploring how AI is transforming agency processes, creative methods and the importance of human-AI collaboration. As well as change management challenges, and the commercial shift from billing time to valuing outcomes.

Zip Zippity Do Da 🚤

As a strategist, I've always craved solving problems in novel, interesting, and impactful ways. Yet what I've discovered is how rarely true innovation occurs. Most businesses prefer addressing challenges through proven methods based on previously successful solutions (which I both appreciate and understand).

Professors, however, follow their hunches to uncover new knowledge. While we hopefully have more agency in hypothesis-testing than Morty Smith exploring the universe with Rick Sanchez, imagine the possibilities of venturing down rabbit holes with a Rick-like guide... testing hypotheses together and solving problems through fresh knowledge that fuels your imagination.

This approach takes your explorations to new depths and your creativity to unexplored destinations. This represents just one of many potential scenarios... Daniel Hulme has a T-800 skull in his office but his efforts such as Conscium WPP can give us all hope... I look forward to having a T-800 Terminator 2 Rick Sanchez in my pocket, not that Terminator 1 model.

Wubba Lubba Dub Dub, come with me if you want to imagine 🤖

The Lean Brand: http://leanbrandbook.com/ & The Stack, which continues to provide a valuable ‘Gold Line’ in the age of AI http://leanbrandbook.com/stack/

The Disruptive Empathy Toolkit: https://disruptive.jeremiahgardner.com/

Stay curious…

This chat follows on from Stephan’s talk at NVIDIA GTC 2024 - https://resources.nvidia.com/en-us-generative-ai-for-retail/gtc24-s63057

And WPP podcasts such as Screaming Creativity - https://youtu.be/FqtSJ9Koias?si=c9daTmFHeLca8BEm

Stay curious…

Check out Crossing The Chasm - https://weareaiinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/AI-Institute-Crossing-the-Chasm-Report-Nov2024.pdf

& Cheaper Than A Peanut - https://weareaiinstitute.com/progress-is-now-cheaper-than-a-peanut/

On 30th Jan Cheaper Than A Peanut has their first event for those in the London area - https://www.linkedin.com/events/meeting-17274514664233828352/about/

Stay curious…